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Meryl Nass's avatar

My good friend and excellent scientist/physician Michael Palmer wrote the following, with which I agree:

The very discovery of viruses arose from the observation of contagion and experimental transmission -- the infectious agent could not be seen under the light microscope and could not be removed from the infectious material by filtration; but the reliable transmission and the characteristic symptoms that arose in the experimentally infected animals or plants had led to the recognition of many different viruses, even before the first viral particles were actually visualized.

In 1937, the virologist Thomas Rivers wrote:

"The exact nature of these agents is not known; some may be the midgets of the microbial universe, others may represent forms of life unfamiliar to us, while still others may be inanimate incitants of disease. Regardless of lack of complete knowledge of their nature, it is decidedly incorrect to say that these agents are unknown. The incitants of smallpox, vaccinia, poliomyelitis, yellow fever, fowl plague and tobacco mosaic are known; they can be recognized or identified in a variety of ways; they can be separated one from another and from other kinds of infectious agents; they can be used for extensive experiments conducted either in vivo or in vitro."

Rivers, T.M. (1937) Viruses and Koch's Postulates. J. Bacteriol. 33:1-12 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=16559982

Two years later appeared the first study showing viral particles (tobacco mosaic virus) in the electron microscope. As you know, there is meanwhile a plethora of EM studies showing such particles in vivo and in vitro. Nowadays we even have crystal structures of some viruses. This paper reports the crystal structure of the complete Hepatitis A virus particle:

Wang, X. et al. (2014) Hepatitis A virus and the origins of picornaviruses. Nature 517:85-88 http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature13806

As you know, crystallization is not only good for obtaining structures, but also an excellent purification method. In such crystals, the virus particles are present as highly pure and concentrated as is practically feasible. Therefore, these crystals should be acceptable to both sides as sample materials.

If you want to convince me that these particles are not viruses and are not related to the disease (hepatitis A), please do the following:

1. obtain such particles from the excrement of healthy persons,

2. crystallize them and demonstrate that they are equivalent in every respect to those reported in the above study,

3. take a spoonful of those crystals and don't fall sick with hepatitis A. Should you already have immunity to the disease, please find a non-immune volunteer to take your place.

You see, both sides can play the game of "demanding proof."

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patrick tobin's avatar

If you don’t get any bites I’d still attend the zoom presentations. Getting out ahead of this BS is critical.

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