Now I remember why I said I would not write about this again.
Because if people cannot agree on some basic facts as a starting point (like come on, of course people have been given colds, as have animals, in labs) then the conversation goes nowhere.
And those who believe there are no contagious microorganisms (or only none we cannot see with light microscopes) or some other iteration of this belief system--well, we start out with a different set of facts.
Anyway, this is a distraction if it is not a psyop, so why waste more time on it.
Yes, Sin Hang Lee and I did a zoom with andrew and tom in 2020 or 2021 and it lasted an hour and it was ugly. I don't know if it is online. Not sure it helps anyone understand anything if your position is carved in stone. I won't be doing another.
COVID-1984 has been the greatest distraction and psyop on earth. EVER.
To rigorously question viruses, vaccines and the ruinous remnants of modern medicine, which has betrayed us all, is essential for rebuilding trust and establishing truth.
Yes, there are things we can see with microscopes and Koch’s Postulates must be used as a basis, but there is so much we really do not know. We just have to be humble about some things.
Everything I am reading is teaching me more. This is what these platforms are for, is to help us expand our awareness and understanding.
Thank you for the forum and having opened the can of worms. Sometimes we need to know, we have more to learn.
I agree bongo... I have actually been thinking exactly this today. The no-virus position especially frustrates me because it would seemingly negate the need for early treatments, which is such an important topic on its own as it relates to both protecting one's self, and also in seeing the underlying sausage making of the plandemic in the suppression of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine. Understanding the efficacy of early treatment, some evidence for which comes from earlier studies of (here it comes) in-vitro viral replication, and how to use these medicines in a cocktail with supplements, is important for everyone, vax'ed and unvax'ed. If I were working the military psy-op behind the plandemic, I would use some of my bot- and social media nudge forces to amplify the no-virus position because it's such a perfect distraction and wedge... it ties up the truth finding in knots if you let it. Hopefully non-technical people can understand that early treatments which consisted of off-patent drugs were suppressed in order to clear the way for the mRNA transfections to "save us". It's obvious to almost all now that the jabs didn't save us....
I'm not going to watch it. Poornima Wagh is a fraud. She does not have any PhDs. She never graduated from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and perhaps never even attended. Her MBA is in management, not finance. She is riding on the coattails of a genuine scientist, Dr. Purnima Wagh PhD, a cancer researcher. When people look up Poornima to determine whether or not she is authentic, they find Purnima and assume that she is the same person, misspelled. She is not. Poornima may have had 2 years of biology and possibly worked in the lab, at a community College.
LOLOLOL... exactly Dr. Nass. I have previously promised myself that I wouldn't engage in these comments anymore also... but like a moth is to a flame, I keep coming back for more (now with my Rabies-as-poster-virus argument). Be well and stay sane.
Hi Judith, in the comments above mine there is a Jim H, as well as this https://hillmd.substack.com/archive?sort=new elsewhere in this article. I subscribe to Peak Prosperity and it was there that I saw the rabies poster. I wrote Jim H and asked him where is that poster. You might want to do the same because its excellent.
I can't find the original link anymore either. This one has a good depiction in section 5.2 of how it works. One of the uncertainties that the virus deniers clamp onto is the fact that the incubation time is variable, and some people who contact rabid animals never get sick. This likely has to do with variability in the activity of the innate immune system.. something we have learned a lot about in the era of Covid-19. still, if you are bitten, don't get the vaccine, and wait until the brain symptoms start you are 100% dead. 100%. Any we know why. And virus deniers don't want you to believe it. What a strange, strange world.
Not clear if this guy was afraid of needles, vaccines in particular, or just was in denial.. but his decision didn't serve him well;
" In one case, a man in Illinois who had a bat roost in his home awoke in August to find a bat on his neck, according to a statement from the Illinois Department of Public Health. The bat was captured and tested positive for rabies, but the man declined to take a vaccine because of a longstanding fear of vaccines. About a month after contact with the rabid bat, the man started experiencing neck pain, headaches, difficulty controlling his arms, finger numbness and difficulty speaking, before dying."
Give me a break. There are biological, toxin, chemical, nuclear, electromagnetic, weather weapons, to name a few non-traditionals.
Are you implying that covid is instead a bacterium or fungus?
Or an EMF weapon? Love all the kibbitzers who proffer no alternate evidence. Like I said, offer some facts, then maybe if we agree on the facts we can argue about their interpretation.
Influenza-Like Illnesses got rebranded as 'covid' with the PCR trickery.
Vrilogists have been lying about 'isolation' for fifty years and injecting rotting tissue cultures into children, and into everybody, as a consequence of these horrific lies.
Shame on you. May your fate be that of Fauci and Gates.
Ever see black spots on the leaves of plants. Sometimes fungus. often virus. MY maidenhair fern has them.
The J and J vaccine is made from an adenovirus with some of its genome replaced. Did it work to immunize against covid for a short time? Seems to have. If there are no viruses, how did the DNA get into the cell's nucleus?
Colds are due to viruses. What else might they be from?
What could cause seasonal colds other than viruses? Lots of things! Air pollution. Radiation.Dirty electricity (see Firstenburg's The Invisible Rainbow). Poor nutrition and lack of exercise.Colds are due to the body's need to detox. Cold season tends to peak in late winter when Vitamin D levels are low due to an extended period without exposure to sufficient sunshine.Pathogens are not needed to explain this detox process.
They could be from bacterial infections, nutritional depletion, allergies, something sprayed in the air... any number of things. Go low on Vit. D and C for a while and you'll likely get a "cold."
You say not to trust you, do the experiment... Have you looked at what is in the J & J shot yourself? And now, I'm off and I won't bother you no mo. xo Peace and Happiness.
Hundreds of papers describe SARS-2 isolation within cells, just not outside of cells as the no-virus crowd insists is required. But researchers have had no reason to do this.
Worse than the virus not existing, it’s a bioweapon.
Nothing gets isolated or sequenced in "virus isolation and sequencing" publications. Isolation in culture is an oxymoron. No particle gets purified, only pointed at and declared a "Virus!!"
I got a response from you, but now I can't find it... Yes, I find it, not really "funny," but interesting that no one on the planet has a sample of the fake virus... VERY interesting. I don't believe that viruses exist, or if they do, we haven't found them yet. So I hope that clears up what I meant. I support your position, in other words.
I think this is what I said that was misunderstood, Ms. Massey! Maybe it WAS every lab in the world... I thought I was being overboard, not making fun of you or anything! SOOO easy to misunderstand things in just a lot of type... Anyway, you deserve many kudos for your work. Seriously.
These are not even “masks” under the Occupational Health and Safety guidelines. They are Breathing Obstruction Devices; Muzzles for humans. Designed to show one is a slave.
Well, let's just assume for one moment that there is no "virus" at all... WHY then, would all these "health" organizations, doctors, governments, et al, lock down the entire planet, crash all the small businesses, keep people in isolation and terror, and basically ruin the lives of sooooo many people, causing needless deaths of elders and people suffering from other types of illnesses? Hmmmm. And now we find that there is nothing like any kind of "mRNA" anything in these injections... I saw you in a video some time ago and you seem intelligent and astute. Doesn't this seem fishy to you? (I find that many of the folks who have the hardest time dealing with the possibility that there has been VAST medical fraud for decades are people trained in the medical field-- which makes sense in some ways, and I'm not being snide here. My mother is a retired RN, and she just can't get her head around much of any of this).
Had you been reading my writing, you would have learned that I am one of the people identifying the frauds. Some of the important articles are on the left side of a website Merylnassmd.com
Almost everything about the Covid response has been fraudulent as best I can tell. Despite that, I had to treat lots of patients who had developed a new illness and it’s spread within families and there is no question whatsoever in my mind that it was contagious. Call it what you will a contagious something made people sick. The doctors and nurses got to see this on a daily basis unlike most of the rest of the population. I have asked if it wasn’t a virus then what was it? But instead of answering the question people simply telling me there was no pandemic. That is not an answer that explains the diseases I saw
I have not read your writing... I saw a video you did, which I liked. That's been some time ago, but you were lovely. You know, I can't read EVERYTHING by EVERYONE. I have never said there was no pandemic. But trying to talk to you on Substack when you are still in the paradigm of Germ Theory is difficult. I (and lots of others) can provide you with things that will be exciting and interesting-- the certainly were/are to me-- but you have to want to see them. We've been wading through a lot in the past 2 and a half years! When I say "contagion has never been proven," I am speaking of a great number of experiments and various experts who I have read or listened to on videos. It DOES sound hard to believe, I get that. If you can see that covid is fraudulent, then maybe keep going! But let me plant this little seed: What if those diseases, and Covid, too, are caused by bad water, bad food, something sprayed in the air, EMF's, stress, etc etc. This would fall under TERRAIN THEORY, which is a very logical, Nature-driven theory that makes FAR FAR more sense to me than Germ Theory. I feel like it would fit right into your stance, generally speaking. Give it a try? I'm sure you are very busy, but here's two VERY good videos. Take them in this order, I suggest.
and then this one. The second one is long, and it's recorded a bit slow, so if you go to the bottom right of the screen and click on the little gear icon, and speed it up a notch, it's better.
I only ask that you trust me, a stranger, this once. ^_^ These two videos filled me with such JOY, because they feel SO RIGHT and make SO MUCH SENSE!! Cheers, doc. So many people love you, don't let all this arguing get you down. And I'm sorry for being rude, if I was... It's hard to know who is just trying to do their thing, and who is on the Wrong Side-- xo xo
I agree with you, but I guess you're not seeing the point that I am trying to make. Your standard of high quality for any of these viral isolation papers do not address the root problem of viral isolation itself.
So why haven't there been any control studies where those same cell cultures using monkey kidney cells are used without the same sample from a sick individual to show that what is bring isolated is definitely the virus?
No one has accepted the challenge because it's a non-starter. It makes no sense.
Steve: "I'll give you a million dollars if you can prove that viruses don't exist."
Me: "But the entire point of this conversation is to address the viral isolation process itself which is being used to claim that viruses exist."
Steve: "But we have over 100 years of data that show that viruses exist. How can that be possible?"
Me: "Because the viral isolation process has been flawed since the very beginning."
And it goes on and on and on. The viral challenge that Dr. Baileys, Kaufman, and Cowan have proposed is a much more productive challenge for proving the existence of viruses.
The entire point that these other doctors are trying to make is that the viral isolation process itself is not scientifically sound. The process using monkey kidney cells, antibiotics, yeast, and all sorts of additives to isolate a virus is what is in question. If the process is airtight, then controlled studies would prove it. Why haven't these been done? That's all it would take.
Speaking of Steve Kirsch, why do you think he decided on speaking to Patrick Gunnels about the virus issue instead of someone else like Dr. Merritt? As far as I know. Dr. Merritt is the first and/or only one on substack that has been demonetized. Based on the last almost three years, don't you think that this might be someone worth having a conversation with?
Here's where you demonstrate your lack of understanding of science. In science, when it comes to miniscule things like viruses, atoms, neutrons, protons, and electrons, nothing is ever airtight. It takes very clever artificial techniques to study these things.
And how exactly does one "prove" a negative? It's like asking someone to prove God doesn't exist, or to prove unicorns don't exist. It's ridickerous. ^_^
Instead of wasting time with your unsubstantiated assertions, how about citing some actual science rather than Kirsch's publicity-stunt "challenges" - which are not a replacement for science.
Here's a virus challenge that actual involves science:
I've already written on Bailey's blog more than once that their claims based on false assumptions of the germ theory that viruses don't exist are not good enough. Anybody who is an MD must have witnessed the pathogen transferred between people in closed surroundings. If they deny it, their license to practice medicine should be revoked...
You ARE aware that Steve Kirsch is a tech guy, not a scientist?
Try to step outside the medical box for a minute and just think about the procedure... It's BIZARRE to put all that stuff in there and then say you've "isolated" anything! Just sayin. Not to mention all the Covid stuff is in silico... Yes? Plus, there's no EVIDENCE of isolation, just unsubstantiated CLAIMS of isolation... ask Diane Massey, she's on this thread.
And Steve Kirsch isn't the ultimate truth-teller, either... In fact, when people who can prove him wrong challenge him, he ignores them. He's controlled opposition. Are you?
If viruses are not alive, as you claim, what makes them animate? By what mechanism do dead viruses infect the host cells, hijack its machinery, replicate and then spread? If you can prove it, I will not only give you $ 1M. I will split the Nobel Prize with you...
Live viruses are not alive is the senses I mentioned — motile, respiring, reproducing outside of cells, or metabolizing fuels — but are “live” in the sense of being infective and functional, e.g., in distinguishing between “live” and “killed” virus vaccines.
Contact me at hillmd @substack.com if you’re serious about that reward.
No hundreds of papers do not explain that masks work - only a few do and they have been debunked by the over 150 well-document studies over many years that show they do not work
And if you go a little further along the Road of Actual Science, you may enter the terrain of Terrain Theory (out of the Germ Theory underbrush, let's go!)...
Thank you for this, Meryl. While I know a few reasonable people in this camp, the majority are religious fundamentalists bent on attacking the most effective voices in the medical freedom movement, which led me to suspect the original idea was planted to divide our community and cause normies to conflate those with questions about vaxx safety/efficacy with those they perceive as flat-earthers who question not only the existence of SARS-CoV2 but also viruses, germs, contagion, and even the immune system and autoimmune disorders. When OffGuardian publishes my articles, they often come out in droves to attack me, as do several virulent trolls on Substack, even though I have never once written about their beliefs. The mere acknowledgment that people get a unique collection of symptoms that respond successfully to early treatment protocols is enough to put me in their cross-hairs.
Meryl, Please understand the following: You (among many others) and Dr Tom Cowan (among many others) are both being hoodwinked by the forces that want to keep us divided. Whether viruses exist or not is irrelevant! HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE: it doesn't matter whether the bio weapon that came out of Wuhan was a gain of function bat virus or was created from a computer program. Injecting poison into the hypnotized masses for profit regardless of the damage done -- in other words, evil -- would be happening exactly the same in either case. That is what we're dealing with! While we squabble about this non-issue, powerful forces are intent on destroying life itself. If we don't watch it, our children and grandchildren will be transhuman. We need all hands on deck.
Fauci, off the hook???? Virus or no virus, that guy is anything but off the hook. Have you read the book about him, RFK, Jr.'s "The Real Anthony Fauci"? I've never in my life seen such amazing documentation... Fauci is a murderer, straight up.
He is guilty of crimes against humanity many times over!!!
Just take a look at what he did to the gay population!!! His career is death, coercion and mayhem!!!
He is an [arch demon/psychopath/narcissist/sociopath/spiritual failure] and [he and his ilk] are being awaited on the other side. It will not be a warm welcome for [him], but it might be quite hot, like the hell fires. Just kidding, but there will be a place where [he] will be the victim of all the evil [he] has ever done, b4 [he] is made inert. Never, ever to exist ever again.
Take it or leave it. I am sure those beagle puppies are happy with this coming to pass.
Poomina Wagh and her team have been analyzing the [stabs] and have found them all to contain [poisons] in the form of [hydrogel, Lipid Nano Particles and Heavy Metals]. All of this together spells deadly. The [poisons] have been pushed. [Gain of function research] was done.
However, there are other ways [they] are poisoning us also. Do not think [they] are not trying to destroy beings via resonance also, b/c [they] are and have been since time immoral.
The Chinese were never ON the hook. That was some fancy dancy pointing and lying. But it's interesting to note that Wuhan, besides being incredibly laden with air pollution, they also put up something like 30,000 5G towers right before the "pandemic" started... Bad combination. And very interesting too, is the fact that the symptoms of "covid" are the same as the symptoms of radiation poisoning.
First off, I didn't say ALL symptoms of EMF sensitivity are the same, my statement was probably overly broad. So let me be more specific:
Here are some common symptoms of EMF toxicity:
FLU-LIKE SYMPTOMS (ding, ding!)
CHEST PAIN
DIFFICULTY BREATHING
FATIGUE
HEART ARRHYTHMIA
Now. If you consider that when "Covid" started in Wuhan, two things were present: Intensely heavy smog/pollution in the air (one of the worst places in China for that) AND right before "Covid" started, thousands of 5G towers had just gone up. Very similar situation in northern Italy, which suffered a huge impact shortly into the "pandemic." There are MANY reports of similar "coincidences" of air pollution and 5G present in heavy "covid" outbreaks. Are there dots in physics? Maybe connecting those dots is a different field of study.
Since this supposed virus has never been isolated, nope, never has, ask Diane Massey, who is on this thread, or any number of other experts, and since all the inoculations consist of a LOT of heavy metals, which become "activated" by EMF's, it's logical to consider the possibility that this whole "Covid" thing is not about a so-called "virus," but about something else entirely; and interesting how a massive surge in 5G towers going up all over the country, particularly in heavily-populated cities, and vast censorship of anyone who speaks out about the dangers of EMF's... Well, maybe it takes more than being "trained in physics," which isn't something you've proven anyway, and you don't mention HOW MUCH training in physics you've had nor what level of education you are endowed with, or where your education was given, or pretty much anything else. So if you're going to call "bullshit," then give some indication of how you come to that conclusion, because ANYBODY can just SAY something. I've given you some details. How bout it?
Which shows that you're not. So you might stop being defensive and start asking questions instead. Like what physics says about 5G radiation and radiation sickness.
New Zealand, South Korea, Hawaii, Singapore, and Japan all are heavy into 5G, but went months without a major covid outbreak. Black Swan locator beeps. (The 5G thesis is disproven.)
(I expect that you will ignore this data like you do the rest.)
Nah, don't bother. I'm bored with you guys roaming around on Substack saying ludicrously stupid things and stirring everybody up. I should have realized this is an agenda yesterday when I saw this post. SO... no. I'm out of it.
Meryl, why do monkey kidney cells need to be used to isolate a virus?
"Inoculation of Vero/hSLAM cells with material from the nasopharyngeal swab led to the isolation of SARS‐CoV‐2 virus in culture."
Can you please explain what makes Dr. Andrew Kaufman ignorant? I would love to see you have an actual conversation with him, Dr. Cowan, and/or Dr. Bailey.
Question: Do you know that Meryl Nass has been informing the public for decades and is widely respected?
I don't know how they were rude but she does not need to continue that conversation. We on the other side do need to continue the conversation, and we should be more considerate.
Mark Bailey is a microbiologist who questions the existence of viruses, He's married to Samantha Bailey, an MD. - Richard Feynman Teaches you the scientific method - It doesn't matter how smart you are, or what your name is - if the theory disagrees with experiment, it's wrong. - https://fs.blog/mental-model-scientific-method/
What Feynman didn't teach is that doing experiments can be a very difficult thing. Which is why people, all of us naturally lazy, go for the apparent "simplicity" of computers.
The experiments of Lanka are interpreted in one way by some people and ignored by other people. Everyone following her own biases. Those who seek confirmation of the non-existence of viruses have a very difficult time criticizing the results from Doctor Lanka.
Those who already know viruses exist and are dangerous have no time to be skeptical, so the have faith in the debunking of Lanka's experiments done by another believer in viruses.
Poor me, not being a scientist, I cannot understand why sometimes they say faith and consensus have nothing to do with science, and sometimes they have to submit to consensus and have confidence in the work of their peers.
I have heard people saying that Koch's postulates have been proved many times for SARS-CoV-2, and then saying that it is a very low quality level of prove, that it's not necessary, and that there are other more modern a more proper ways to prove the existence and the pathogenicity of viruses. Which is it? Then, pressured to explain why isolation is not necessary and why are the other methods preferable, they change the topic and start waxing philosophical explaining how science is not about proving anything, but about disproving wrong theories.
I am very confused. The scientists seem to be playing many different games.
Could it be that scientists are not good at communication?
And why should anyone believe anything that a scientist has to say after seeing high ranking academics with two dehumanizing masks on, pretending there was an emergency to this very day, while chastising heroes like Paul Marik. The weird behavior of the people at the top of science is a clear indication that it is very sensible to be extremely skeptical about all "known" facts.
But being skeptical is not proof for anything. Being skeptical means that blood is flowing through your brain.
And I'm sure that Feynman would be a major maskhole and a proponent of prisoner camps for refuseniks if he was alive. Politics take over the brain of the best people and those who pretend to be non-political are often progressives with strong dictatorial impulses, in my experience.
Science is the art of study and questions. For something to be accepted as valid, it has to be questioned over and over and over, and it's NEVER "settled," if there's anyone who hasn't seen it for themselves, repeatedly doing the same result.
Science has in the past few decades, been overrun by financial interests. If you go against what the Money Guys want, they won't fund your research. This is why we are in the place we're in now. Anyone who says "viruses are a scam" will be de-funded. Boom.
Because Dr. Kaufman is a psychiatrist? Do you not see the irony in this? This entire fraud of a pandemic was only possible because of this idea that we should appeal to authority.
If there is anything that we have learned, it is to stop appealing to authority and to do your own research.
EXACTLY! Do your own research. Have you had herpes? Did it go away then come back when stressed? Did you get it or give it to someone else? It lives in your nerve cells. The fluid in the little blisters is filled with virus. You can sometimes see it with a Tzanck prep under a regular microscope.. Do your own research. Use yourself.
Fortunately, I have not had herpes, but I understand your point.
To be clear, I do not have a horse in this race. I am open minded to the idea that it is very possible that our understanding of viruses is incorrect, especially considering the fact that viral isolation is a real problem that needs to be addressed.
Nass is being divisive and insulting to those she should regard as colleagues. There are no wicked people in the Terrain group but I see a lot of anger and hostility here. The Terran group are simply questioning science orthodoxy - Insulting Dr. Kaufman is personality trait of weakness - Richard Feynman Teaches the scientific method - It doesn't matter how smart you are, or what your name is - if the theory disagrees with experimentation, it's wrong. ie: In Kaufman's view; If the virus cannot be proven to be isolated according to the rigors of Koch's Postulates then the existence of the virus is questionable - https://fs.blog/mental-model-scientific-method/
That wasn't me - that was the person who commented before me - I never asked a question, so maybe it is you with a short memory or perhaps you are just ignorant.
Thanks for the clearly presented argument, Meryl. I, too, suspect these “non est” characters are some form of limited hangout, corralling skeptics into a dead end theory. The crazier theories get promoted to capture these people, and discredit legitimate theories through guilt by association. It’s another facet of the information firehose and the sense-making crisis we all battle with.
Aug 25, 2022·edited Aug 25, 2022Liked by Meryl Nass
Meryl, I agree with you. As I worked through my own questions early on--and my own cognitive dissonance as I sorted out who and what to believe--I listed esp. to Kaufman. While I didn't know enough to discard the no virus ideas right away, it never felt quite right to me. The questions asked by the "no virus" crowd in the beginning were well meant. They got stuck, however, and did not move forward as more data became available. They ironically became cherry pickers and then science deniers, looking askance at new discoveries.
Still, it was important then that they did challenge the mainstream "wisdom." The unholy alignment of the specious modeling of Neil Ferguson, the clear faults of the PCR test and high levels of false results, tainted all the data gathered. It grossly overstated infection and death rates, and the resulting fear allowed the notion of test and trace, lockdowns and quarantine, masking etc. to take hold. Those of us digging for truth were trying to figure out whether the public health response had any value--and trying to articulate why the public health measures felt so off base. Some got stuck at the level of thinking the virus wasn't real.
When it came to treatment, the 'no virus' meme surely made some people hesitate to admit they might be sick, and to delay seeking medical care (if they could even find true early treatment). Belief in the "no virus" meme probably led to lost lives.
What strikes me most strongly here is how closely the negative effects of the spike protein from the virus track with the multiplied spike dangers from the shots. In those with COVID, the early effects are in the respiratory system, which can make it look different from the shots, which circulate throughout the body and produce billions of spike proteins, and target reproductive organs and other areas which the respiratory virus rarely reaches. There are clear similarities in the mechanism of injury (MOI) of spike, whether from the virus or the shots: blood clots.
While death rates are up 40% world wide after the big push for vaccination began, does it make sense to dither about whether viruses exist? The real problem is the shots which were justified by creating the illusion of a highly deadly pandemic. The death and damage resulting from these experimental vaccines are where our attention ought to be.
Thank you Dr Nass. The issue I have is that whether we 'little' people believe virus or not is irrelevant.
Oligarchs, and their stooges and compradors(aka politicians) go on anyway pushing reset, what ends up happening is the 'opposition' looks foolish hung up on semantics instead of practice to undo the issues reset will bring and has already brought via lockdown policies.
Once again Meryl pretends that the onus is on someone other than the people who insist that a virus exists. Wrong! Nothing is required of us, and we've already pointed out over and over and over again the blatantly anti-scientific nature of the methods used in "virus isolation" publications.
We've also pointed out that contagion of a disease has never been scientifically demonstrated (and all past attempts to do so have failed). Nevertheless Meryl demands that we explain the cause of an allegedly contagious disease, without demonstrating the alleged contagion lol... or the alleged "incubation period" (incubation of what exactly??)
Meryl demands an explanation of symptoms, then immediately makes all sorts of unproven claims that she expects to be incorporated into any offered explanation of symptoms.
When will Meryl catch onto the fact that "CORONAVIRUS DISEASE - 19" is just a meaningless label based on useless, fraudulent tests that only distract from real health problems and real causes, and that no further explanation is remotely required?? There is no unique "covid-19" disease, there is just a relabeling of other conditions and perfectly healthy people. This isn't rocket science.
And I'm sorry but pretending that labelling a drug "antiviral" is somehow evidence of a virus... really?
Pretending that it's necessary to isolate and grow something in order to make up meaningless in silico "virus genomes" on computers?? Just read the damn Methods, Meryl! They extract all the RNA from a clinical sample or a cell culture, detect and/or make up zillions of sequences (using PCR with too many cycles), and have a computer patch them together into a "genome" that has nothing to do with reality. It's the result of illogic/needing a paycheck/corruption... all sorts of factors... the same way all sorts of other harmful and dumb things go largely unchallenged in this world.
But hey, thank you Meryl for citing the Australia "isolation" study and thereby making your latest attempt to defend virology so very easy to debunk.
"Following several failures to recover virions with the characteristic fringe of surface spike proteins, it was found that adding trypsin to the cell culture medium immediately improved virion morphology." LOL.
This study was dissected long ago, it's the typical monkey cell nonsense and shame on you for pretending this is science. I have a webpage devoted to this ridiculous study, with commentary also from Dr. Tom Cowan and Canada's Saeed Qureshi, former Senior Scientist with 35 years experience at Health Canada:
The Victorian Infectious Diseases Reference Laboratory performed the usual “monkey business” of mixing a patient's clinical sample with kidney cells from an African green monkey and fetal bovine serum (both are sources of genetic contamination), and antibiotics, etc, malnourishing and poisoning the cells, irrationally blaming “the virus” for cell breakdown. No "virus" was found in the clinical sample, as always. No scientific method was applied. No alleged virus was used as the independent variable in a controlled experiment. Just wild, idiotic, irresponsible, anti-scientific assumptions.
The Doherty Institute, home of VIDRL where “the virus” was alleged to have been isolated, admitted in response to an FOI request that they have no record of the fake “SARS-COV-2” being found in any diseased human on the planet and isolated/purified (as have literally hundreds of institutions around the world):
I challenged Meryl just a couple of weeks ago to cite science that demonstrates the existence of "monkeypox virus" or SARS-COV-2. Here is our email exchange:
I'm 54 years old and have a maters degree in biostatistics from the Dalla Lana School of Public Health, University of Toronto and am co-author on numerous cancer publications. And anyone can see through the antiscientific nature of virology, so I'll stay in this discussion but thanks for your misguided advice.
My master's thesis in physics had to do with experimental research in the medium infrared. Photons. Stuff you can't weigh in a scale because of the low mass. You can't isolate nor purify photons and sell them in a bin at Natural Grocers. The medium infrared is EMF radiation that can't be seen and can only be detected by _artificial_ means. I prepared experimental pellets in a press and ran spectral analyses on them in a lab using a Perkins-Elmer reflectometer. I came up with my own thesis topic and tested it. My advisor did a lot of the work designing the experiment by setting up the acoustic link to the university computer and the jcl to run the fast fourier transform program with experimental data as the input. It was in my thesis defense that I realized how many things I had overlooked. "I don't know, but will look into it and get back to you." x 3
I didn't work with a biostatistician, which is common in physics. We usually do our own statistics.
So you are a biostatistician. Tell me about your work designing experiments and conducting them in a lab.
Distract much from your lack of science demonstrating "viruses"? I don't have all day to respond to endless inane comments from you Tom, sorry. I have no idea if particles called photons have actually been shown to exist and I'd no longer be surprised if they haven't. And if they do exist but also behave as waves depending on whether or not someone is looking at them, that is quite a different phenomenon from "viruses" which are said to be solid particles. Share some "virus" science if you can.
This isn't a question of confidence. There is zero science. Show that I'm wrong, with science you can.
I've made a huge contribution - literally hundreds of FOI responses from >35 countries - none can cite or provide any record of the fake virus being found in any bodily fluid/tissue anywhere on the planet:
Absurd. The most that you might claim is that the evidence is not as strong as it should be.
" Show that I'm wrong, with science you can."
Been there, done that, you had a crank response. This is why no one takes you seriously.
"I've made a huge contribution - literally hundreds of FOI responses from >35 countries - none can cite or provide any record of the fake virus being found in any bodily fluid/tissue anywhere on the planet"
It's true that no one has followed your absurd test conditions.
Just to give you an idea of what you might accomplish for science--Joseph Priestley provided evidence for the oxidation theory of chemistry, despite being a proponent of the theory of phlogiston, which he maintained throughout his life. Without Priestley's contributions, including the discovery of "anti-phlogiston" (oxygen), science would have been much poorer.
This is how science is done if you want to make a contribution. You help test theories. Like Priestley did.
Thank you Meryl! There should not be a single cogent human on earth asserting that the spike protein was part of any naturally occurring pathogen. It is absolutely the Swiss Army knife of bioweapon payloads. The Achilles heel of this genocidal weapon remains early treatment.
So an anonymous internet commenter "knows" that my FOIs are all fabricated. Wow. Please do share the evidence upon which you base your stunning accusation.
I have a question you or someone else may be able to answer.
In 1963, June Almeida made some pictures of coronaviruses on an electron microscope. The little spikes on the viruses of those pictures were the same atificial spike protein we believe is a disabling biological weapon?
The spike protein of a similar bat coronavirus was altered using gain of function techniques to add a Furin Cleavage Site to make humans more susceptible to the virus (ACE-2 receptor) plus there were other genomic inserts, such as an HIV-like insert or Gp-120, to make it more damaging or lethal to us.
Terminology is confusing. A natural virus was modified to make it more infectious and toxic. It "escaped" the lab by an infected lab worker or was intentionally released and infected others. Once in a human, the altered virus reproduced (or produced copies of itself) and spread to other humans ad infinitum. Because RNA viruses are not stable, imperfect copies were produced, which is what the scientists call variants. I prefer calling it "altered" because to me, synthetic implies making something from scratch.
"I have challenged those who deny Covid is caused by a real virus to explain what, exactly, is causing these symptoms if it is not a virus. "
If you are asserting there is a real virus and that it is a pathogen which is causing a specific disease, the scientific method would deem that it's up to you to prove this hypothesis, not up to everyone else to provide an alternative. That's how hypothesis testing is done.
You claim hundreds of thousands of sequences have been uploaded. How were these sequences obtained? They were in fact assembled from material found in cell cultures in which un-purified extracts from those deemed sick with "Covid" (on the basis of the inaccurate PCR test) were grown in addition to nutrients and antibiotics. The numerous possible resulting genomes assembled were then looked at and compared to a supposed known SARS genome, itself the product of computer software assembly, because it was pre-supposed that something like it was in the mix. This is not at all a scientific procedure.
If you think there is no such thing as a "scientific method," developed over centuries, you are obviously someone with little if any exposure to science, it's a waste of time discussing anything with you. The method puts the burden of proof upon someone making a claim to prove it, not upon everyone else to disprove it. Those who claim an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus exists, has been isolated,... need to prove it, not up to the rest of us to come up with alternative hypotheses as to why "people are getting sick." A defendant in a trial does not have to come up with an actual perpetrator of the alleged crime in order to be found not guilty. Someone cannot claim the moon is made of blue cheese and demand the rest of us disprove this claim.
I get asked this, also. People argue that viruses are not real. Indeed, it is seldom possible to demonstrate one item of such a small thing, because it is destroyed by any process of singling it out, and is too small to see by light microscopy, and is destroyed by electron-microscopy. What is left is it's
Hiroshima-shadow, like that cast by those vaporized by the bomb.
Still, viruses respond to treatment like infectious agents, like strep-throat, when there are effective antivirals, which there are for COVID, as well as for flu. What I discovered in the 1990s is that if you treat flu on the first day of symptoms (cheap generic amantadine in those days) it's like magic. On the second day it helps. After 48 hours, antivirals against influenza don't seem to help.
COVID has a longer viral incubation time, so pre-symptomatic treatments do well.
Antiviral treatments, like ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine and zinc help better when given earlier.
Ivermectin is a special case, because it has anti-inflammatory characteristics that help in the second week of COVID. We don't see second-week-crisis much now, like we did with Delta and the previous strains, that attacked the blood vessel linings so badly, and caused crisis wherever there were arterioles (yeah, every organ).
"Ivermectin is a special case, because it has anti-inflammatory characteristics that help in the second week of COVID."
Ditto calcifediol. And it is even better tolerated than IVM. And calcifediol also works well in the first week. But in order to avoid paying thru the nose for Rayaldee, you have to order calcifediol online in advance.
Vitamin-D normalization should be a baseline, and if not already supplemented must be addressed immediately as part of treatment with antivirals, since the immune system is crippled without it. I gave away over 40,000 doses of 5000 IU vitamin-D in 2020.
High dose vitamin D3 works well within 3 days to normalize vitamin-D levels.
D3 won't work in the case of severe liver dysfunction, nor when consuming alcohol, with uptake inhibited by all manner of intestinal conditions. Calcifediol bypasses lots of these sorts of obstacles, although there are some rare genetic conditions which prevent calcifediol from being effective.
Do you have a ref to a pharmacokinetic curve of 25OHD for a megadose of D3 in D3-competent individuals?
Calcifediol supplementation has an almost immediate effect on serum 25OHD.
No pharmakokinetics curve, but several of the studies did include some points. 300,000 IU orally, once gives normal levels in most people from 3 days, out to 21-30 days.
Dr. Nass, perhaps you should talk with Poornima Wagh PhD virology and PhD immunology. The lab she worked in was given a $1.5 million grant from NIH to isolate the SARS COV2 virus. After doing the analysis using the gold standard of isolation, purification and proving causation using Koch’s Postulates they could not find any virus. They did the analysis 3 times and had 6 Universities (5 in CA, 1 on the east coast) duplicating Wagh’s process (she had a control group too) they also could not find any virus. She had a 30 min. meeting with CDC and a small group to share the findings. They then had a 2.5 zoom meeting with Robert Redfield and slew of people. She was told by ROBERT REDFIELD that he did not care what they found they would write up their report stating the virus was isolated. Poornima refused to lie. She was told her lab would then be shut down and they would not be able to publish their results. Her lab was raided and shut down by the FBI and the FBI actually came to her house. She said if you read the methodology used by published papers they use a soup and do not use gold standard processes with a pure sample. You should talk with her. She just did 2 extremely good interviews with Dr. Lee Merritt. She is going to do a conference on Sunday with a group out of Asia and Dr. Reiner Fuellmich. She will be talking about the process used by those that are published and the proper procedure that should be used. She also has a team of 18 people around the world that have analyzed the ingredients in the vaccines. Her findings are quite shocking. She just did an interview on their findings.
Now about this virus being contagious. There is no explanation as to how I got COVID. I was in my home from July to December 2020. I went out in the public 1 day in October to vote. I went on a 1 hour walk each day to get exercise and sun(saw no one....my neighborhood was a ghost town). During this time (except for the one day in October when I went to vote) I was not near another living person. I went into no stores, no one came in my home, I went into no one’s home. In November of 2020 I got severe COVID. I was treated with HCQ & Ivermectin, D3, Vit. C, Zinc, Prednisone, NAC, Z-Pack. I was in bed for 3 weeks but survived. It was always a mystery to me as to how I got COVID. I personally believe that the body goes through a natural cycle of shedding toxins from the body and I also believe this cycle takes place during the winter months. I believe there is no such thing as flu or virus. It is a fabricated science in order to sell pills and injections. Why is it so hard to believe this after all we now know about how we have been lied to for decades. Vaccines are not safe and they are not effective. None of them. If they were good then the US would have the lowest infant mortality rate and the healthiest population in the world because we vaccinate more than any other country. Our infant mortality rate is very high and we are the sickest country in all industrialized nations. When Japan stopped using MMR in the 1990’s their SIDS rate plummeted and they have one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the world. It doesn’t take a PhD to figure out the correlation between vaccines and poor health.
So we all need to keep an open mind and realize it is possible what we have been told for many decades is not true. Remember at one time people were crucified for practicing hand washing before delivering a baby or doing a surgery. And again COVID being contagious......You surely cannot prove that by me. It is possible that other things caused so many to get sick. Polio was not caused by a virus but is environmental. When they stopped spraying DDT all over the place during the summer Polio disappeared. The vaccine did not end Polio. Most cases of Polio today are caused by the vaccine. The definition of Polio was also changed in order to make it seem like the vaccine cured it. The vaccine came out when Polio was almost non-existent.
I really think you will find Poornima Wagh worth your time.
My tear on this subject began after I listened to her. Her lab sent 200 samples thoght to contain coccioides immitus to another lab and the opther lab couldn't find it so there is no coccioides immitus. Hmmm. No valley fever. JUst toxins. Hmmm.
But it responds to antifungals. The Xray findings are characteristic. People get it in the San Joaquin Valley. Maybe you didn't find it cause it wasn't there, or the lab made a mistake, or didn't incubate the samples long enough, or use the right medium. ONe lab can't find something that other labs have found for maybe 100 years , so the fungus does not exist.
Maybe they should have consulted a coccidioides expert to find out what they were doing wrong in the isolation process? Instead of jumping to the conclusion Valley fever must be caused by methyl bromide.
Every illness is caused by some combination of terrain and exposure.
The people who throw the baby out with the bathwater bother me. I can't see the herpes under my microscope, so a) there is no herpes. b) microscopes don't work. Maybe you killed it? Failed to properly isolate it? Don't know what it looks like ? Scientists don't just set up experiments then start doing them. Most early experiments fail because the conditions under which they are run have to be just right, and this often requires trial and error.
Well it appears to me that you are doing the same thing you accuse others.....throwing the baby out with the bath water. You dismiss her findings without ever talking with her then accuse others of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Wagh has been in the business for 20 years. She is not a careless scientist. Science is about collaboration and that is an aspect that has long been forgotten. It appears many scientists today are stuck in a paradigm....it is either my way or my opinion or it doesn’t count or merit discussion. Besides the discussion was about the isolation of the SARS COV2 virus.
She has not failed. The system has failed. DID YOU NOT READ that she was told to lie or have her lab shut down. They didn’t dispute her findings they told her to LIE. I guess the fact that so many others have had their research shut down makes them a fraud as well. IE Dr. McCullough, Dr. Kory, Dr. Merritt, Dr. Mikovits.......are they frauds too?
I can remember difficulties in making optically-smooth pellets in presses during my days working in experimental optical physics. Some days, no problem, but other days, the pellets would always break. We eventually figured out that ambient humidity levels accounted for the difference.
Real science is hard. It's easy to screw up science. And the lab often doesn't correspond to the real world.
See 2 of my comments above. Poornima S Wagh is not Purnima K Wagh. Poornima does not gave any PhDs. She is a fraud. See the article, Charlatan's Web, by Eric Coppolino.
I am very well aware that PURNIMA WAGH is not Poornima wagh. Perhaps you need to do some research on Eric Coppolino. He is not the type of person I would ever put any faith in. There is a lot more to the story than you know. Funny how you will beieve a guy like Coppolino without doing any research on your own. The email I have from Student Records at London School of Hygience and Tropical Medicine stated they could not share any information about Poornima without written permission from Poornima. That is a far cry from “she never attended LSHTM.” Coppolino called her for a friendly get to know one another phone call and he recorded the entire call without her knowledge or permission and then released it to the internet. There was nothing in that call except for a guy asking a lot of questions and Poornima politely answering. It was a nice friendly call that he twisted and took the low life route of sharing what was supposed to be a friendly phone call. At least when Steve Kirsch records a phone call he has the decency to let the person know he is recording the call. If you intentions were honorable (which I do not believe Coppolino has an honorable bone in his body) he would have told her he was going to record. Knowing Poornima she would have no problem with that. But he is, again in my opinion, far from honorable. Here is a bit of information to start your research on him. Again, there is a lot more to this story and you shouldn’t be so fast to call someone a fraud. https://hudsonvalleyone.com/2018/08/04/metoo-comes-to-town/
Sorry for not providing a day by day list of events during my illness. I didn’t think it necessary. I had COVID and was very sick. I know about Dr. Nass but I also know that many scientists are stuck in a paradigm. My suggestion was only that perhaps she should consult with others. She is not the God of science. She is a human being and as any human being can be wrong. We all need collaboration when it comes to science. My comments about vaccines was not to educate her but to educate those reading her posts that still think vaccines are safe and effective. COMMENTS are not just about responding to the author but to also respond to readers and share thoughts and opinions. The point was that perhaps Dr. Nass would want to speak with DR. POORNIMA WAGH who is also an experienced, educated scientist. When scientists points of view and experience do not agree that is when collaboration is important. Science is never settled. Many, many years ago doctors who thought you should wash your hands before surgery were scoffed at and of course today we know the importance of cleanliness before any surgery or delivery of a baby. We also know that many scientific, so called theories, are created in order to feed the pharmaceutical industry and research studies manipulated in order to secure grant money. This is why in todays world we must be open to all aspects of science. Dr. Wagh is not an incompetent. Her experience goes against the grain just like Dr. Mikovits in her day and may other great scientists. That doesn’t make them wrong. People criticized Dr. Zelenko, Dr. Malone, Dr. McCullough and yes Dr. Nass and this is why I am so surprised that Dr. Nass appears to be so closed minded about this issue.
Poornima Wagh is a fraud, as I stated further above. She does not have any PhDs, not even in hotel management, much less virology and immunology. She did not graduate from London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. These are verifiable facts.
At the date of writing the comment you are responding to, I dind't know that Ms. Wagh had lied about her academic acreditation. Also, the date of the interview with Regis Tremblay titled "Poornima Wagh takes the stand to defend herself" is from September 1st, I think. In that interview she had the opportunity to show evidence and she did not.
Unless she ever shows up again, I think we all should leave this affair as finished, declare we don't know how and why this came to be, and that the reasons probably do not matter at all. I don't hold a grudge against her.
Now I remember why I said I would not write about this again.
Because if people cannot agree on some basic facts as a starting point (like come on, of course people have been given colds, as have animals, in labs) then the conversation goes nowhere.
And those who believe there are no contagious microorganisms (or only none we cannot see with light microscopes) or some other iteration of this belief system--well, we start out with a different set of facts.
Anyway, this is a distraction if it is not a psyop, so why waste more time on it.
Yes, Sin Hang Lee and I did a zoom with andrew and tom in 2020 or 2021 and it lasted an hour and it was ugly. I don't know if it is online. Not sure it helps anyone understand anything if your position is carved in stone. I won't be doing another.
FWIW, I'm glad that you did write it. I found it compelling and I also found AMD's posts on this compelling.
It is an op, Dr. Meryl, of that I am confident.
It may not be purely an op, but the way the IC works is to locate fissures and ruthlessly exploit.
Very similar to "woke".
And there are also people employed by Pharm whose job it is to troll boards and disrupt.
Thank you, great post.
COVID-1984 has been the greatest distraction and psyop on earth. EVER.
To rigorously question viruses, vaccines and the ruinous remnants of modern medicine, which has betrayed us all, is essential for rebuilding trust and establishing truth.
Dr. Lee Merritt stated a quote by Michael Crichton. “If it is consensus, it is not science. If it is science it is not consensus.”
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/michael-crichton-explains-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-consensus-science/
Yes, there are things we can see with microscopes and Koch’s Postulates must be used as a basis, but there is so much we really do not know. We just have to be humble about some things.
Everything I am reading is teaching me more. This is what these platforms are for, is to help us expand our awareness and understanding.
Thank you for the forum and having opened the can of worms. Sometimes we need to know, we have more to learn.
Know what? This page is a magnet for trolls. I'm outta here. Don't let 'em mess with you no mo. xo
I think can be helpful to lay-out, over and over, whose interests the 'no virus' meme serves.
Laypeople genuinely misled by these pied pipers have a better chance of understanding the political implications than the scientific errors.
I agree bongo... I have actually been thinking exactly this today. The no-virus position especially frustrates me because it would seemingly negate the need for early treatments, which is such an important topic on its own as it relates to both protecting one's self, and also in seeing the underlying sausage making of the plandemic in the suppression of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine. Understanding the efficacy of early treatment, some evidence for which comes from earlier studies of (here it comes) in-vitro viral replication, and how to use these medicines in a cocktail with supplements, is important for everyone, vax'ed and unvax'ed. If I were working the military psy-op behind the plandemic, I would use some of my bot- and social media nudge forces to amplify the no-virus position because it's such a perfect distraction and wedge... it ties up the truth finding in knots if you let it. Hopefully non-technical people can understand that early treatments which consisted of off-patent drugs were suppressed in order to clear the way for the mRNA transfections to "save us". It's obvious to almost all now that the jabs didn't save us....
Dr. Nass, please watch this conversation between Dr. Lee Merritt and Dr. Wagh about the isolation of this virus.
https://rumble.com/v1ga1e5-dr.-merritt-interview-with-poornima-wagh-phd-virology.html
I'm not going to watch it. Poornima Wagh is a fraud. She does not have any PhDs. She never graduated from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and perhaps never even attended. Her MBA is in management, not finance. She is riding on the coattails of a genuine scientist, Dr. Purnima Wagh PhD, a cancer researcher. When people look up Poornima to determine whether or not she is authentic, they find Purnima and assume that she is the same person, misspelled. She is not. Poornima may have had 2 years of biology and possibly worked in the lab, at a community College.
LOLOLOL... exactly Dr. Nass. I have previously promised myself that I wouldn't engage in these comments anymore also... but like a moth is to a flame, I keep coming back for more (now with my Rabies-as-poster-virus argument). Be well and stay sane.
I've sent the Rabies poster (from PP) on to others and the response--"excellent".
Where is the rabies poster and article on your website? The person below me wants to know and I can't find it. I can't remember where it is in PP.
Thanks!
Could you please provide a link to the rabies as poster virus argument. Thank you.
Check out the comment from Jim H below.
Hi Judith, in the comments above mine there is a Jim H, as well as this https://hillmd.substack.com/archive?sort=new elsewhere in this article. I subscribe to Peak Prosperity and it was there that I saw the rabies poster. I wrote Jim H and asked him where is that poster. You might want to do the same because its excellent.
I can't find the original link anymore either. This one has a good depiction in section 5.2 of how it works. One of the uncertainties that the virus deniers clamp onto is the fact that the incubation time is variable, and some people who contact rabid animals never get sick. This likely has to do with variability in the activity of the innate immune system.. something we have learned a lot about in the era of Covid-19. still, if you are bitten, don't get the vaccine, and wait until the brain symptoms start you are 100% dead. 100%. Any we know why. And virus deniers don't want you to believe it. What a strange, strange world.
https://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/sites/default/files/rabies_virus_2.pdf
This was interesting too;
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/07/health/rabies-deaths.html
Not clear if this guy was afraid of needles, vaccines in particular, or just was in denial.. but his decision didn't serve him well;
" In one case, a man in Illinois who had a bat roost in his home awoke in August to find a bat on his neck, according to a statement from the Illinois Department of Public Health. The bat was captured and tested positive for rabies, but the man declined to take a vaccine because of a longstanding fear of vaccines. About a month after contact with the rabid bat, the man started experiencing neck pain, headaches, difficulty controlling his arms, finger numbness and difficulty speaking, before dying."
What an idiot! If bitten, you should immediately flush the wound with water and H2O2, then get vaxxed.
Do you remember where in PP it was posted?
Give me a break. There are biological, toxin, chemical, nuclear, electromagnetic, weather weapons, to name a few non-traditionals.
Are you implying that covid is instead a bacterium or fungus?
Or an EMF weapon? Love all the kibbitzers who proffer no alternate evidence. Like I said, offer some facts, then maybe if we agree on the facts we can argue about their interpretation.
The facts, ma'am. Just the facts.
Influenza-Like Illnesses got rebranded as 'covid' with the PCR trickery.
Vrilogists have been lying about 'isolation' for fifty years and injecting rotting tissue cultures into children, and into everybody, as a consequence of these horrific lies.
Shame on you. May your fate be that of Fauci and Gates.
There are some really big viruses, they say, that you can see under a kid's microscope. Don't trust me. Do the experiment.
https://www.americanscientist.org/article/giant-viruses
Ever see black spots on the leaves of plants. Sometimes fungus. often virus. MY maidenhair fern has them.
The J and J vaccine is made from an adenovirus with some of its genome replaced. Did it work to immunize against covid for a short time? Seems to have. If there are no viruses, how did the DNA get into the cell's nucleus?
Colds are due to viruses. What else might they be from?
What could cause seasonal colds other than viruses? Lots of things! Air pollution. Radiation.Dirty electricity (see Firstenburg's The Invisible Rainbow). Poor nutrition and lack of exercise.Colds are due to the body's need to detox. Cold season tends to peak in late winter when Vitamin D levels are low due to an extended period without exposure to sufficient sunshine.Pathogens are not needed to explain this detox process.
Well if colds are caused by viruses, why has no research ever managed to make someone catch a cold? https://rumble.com/v1ak9zn-the-end-of-germ-theory-by-spacebusters.html
They could be from bacterial infections, nutritional depletion, allergies, something sprayed in the air... any number of things. Go low on Vit. D and C for a while and you'll likely get a "cold."
You say not to trust you, do the experiment... Have you looked at what is in the J & J shot yourself? And now, I'm off and I won't bother you no mo. xo Peace and Happiness.
Absolutely correct, Dr. Nass.
Hundreds of papers describe SARS-2 isolation within cells, just not outside of cells as the no-virus crowd insists is required. But researchers have had no reason to do this.
Worse than the virus not existing, it’s a bioweapon.
Nothing gets isolated or sequenced in "virus isolation and sequencing" publications. Isolation in culture is an oxymoron. No particle gets purified, only pointed at and declared a "Virus!!"
I got a response from you, but now I can't find it... Yes, I find it, not really "funny," but interesting that no one on the planet has a sample of the fake virus... VERY interesting. I don't believe that viruses exist, or if they do, we haven't found them yet. So I hope that clears up what I meant. I support your position, in other words.
Not labs. Government bodies, regulators, public health authorities, public universities.
Now, over 200 institutions in 40 nations.
My celebration of Christine and her work: https://apocalypticyoga.substack.com/p/christine-massey-200
Christie's website: TinyURL.com/NoRecordFound
Aren't you the lady that sent about a billion FOI's to every lab in the world?? lol
I read about that and it was a very big AHa for me...
I think this is what I said that was misunderstood, Ms. Massey! Maybe it WAS every lab in the world... I thought I was being overboard, not making fun of you or anything! SOOO easy to misunderstand things in just a lot of type... Anyway, you deserve many kudos for your work. Seriously.
Indeed.
Hundreds of papers also claim that masks work against respiratory illnesses.
And let's not forget that this same line of reasoning is used to justify the demonization of HCQ and Ivermectin.
The root of the issue is the virus isolation process itself. Why are monkey kidney cells required to isolate a virus?
No high-quality paper concludes masks work to block aerosols or reduce respiratory virus infection rates.
https://hillmd.substack.com/p/masks-cant-reduce-covid-infection
Yes--even CDC responded to Aaron Siri it had no evidence masks worked agains SARS-2.
These are not even “masks” under the Occupational Health and Safety guidelines. They are Breathing Obstruction Devices; Muzzles for humans. Designed to show one is a slave.
Yep! Visible compliance.
Well, let's just assume for one moment that there is no "virus" at all... WHY then, would all these "health" organizations, doctors, governments, et al, lock down the entire planet, crash all the small businesses, keep people in isolation and terror, and basically ruin the lives of sooooo many people, causing needless deaths of elders and people suffering from other types of illnesses? Hmmmm. And now we find that there is nothing like any kind of "mRNA" anything in these injections... I saw you in a video some time ago and you seem intelligent and astute. Doesn't this seem fishy to you? (I find that many of the folks who have the hardest time dealing with the possibility that there has been VAST medical fraud for decades are people trained in the medical field-- which makes sense in some ways, and I'm not being snide here. My mother is a retired RN, and she just can't get her head around much of any of this).
Had you been reading my writing, you would have learned that I am one of the people identifying the frauds. Some of the important articles are on the left side of a website Merylnassmd.com
Almost everything about the Covid response has been fraudulent as best I can tell. Despite that, I had to treat lots of patients who had developed a new illness and it’s spread within families and there is no question whatsoever in my mind that it was contagious. Call it what you will a contagious something made people sick. The doctors and nurses got to see this on a daily basis unlike most of the rest of the population. I have asked if it wasn’t a virus then what was it? But instead of answering the question people simply telling me there was no pandemic. That is not an answer that explains the diseases I saw
I have not read your writing... I saw a video you did, which I liked. That's been some time ago, but you were lovely. You know, I can't read EVERYTHING by EVERYONE. I have never said there was no pandemic. But trying to talk to you on Substack when you are still in the paradigm of Germ Theory is difficult. I (and lots of others) can provide you with things that will be exciting and interesting-- the certainly were/are to me-- but you have to want to see them. We've been wading through a lot in the past 2 and a half years! When I say "contagion has never been proven," I am speaking of a great number of experiments and various experts who I have read or listened to on videos. It DOES sound hard to believe, I get that. If you can see that covid is fraudulent, then maybe keep going! But let me plant this little seed: What if those diseases, and Covid, too, are caused by bad water, bad food, something sprayed in the air, EMF's, stress, etc etc. This would fall under TERRAIN THEORY, which is a very logical, Nature-driven theory that makes FAR FAR more sense to me than Germ Theory. I feel like it would fit right into your stance, generally speaking. Give it a try? I'm sure you are very busy, but here's two VERY good videos. Take them in this order, I suggest.
https://rumble.com/v1ga1e5-dr.-merritt-interview-with-poornima-wagh-phd-virology.html
and then this one. The second one is long, and it's recorded a bit slow, so if you go to the bottom right of the screen and click on the little gear icon, and speed it up a notch, it's better.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/RpaBdalbgD2Y/
I only ask that you trust me, a stranger, this once. ^_^ These two videos filled me with such JOY, because they feel SO RIGHT and make SO MUCH SENSE!! Cheers, doc. So many people love you, don't let all this arguing get you down. And I'm sorry for being rude, if I was... It's hard to know who is just trying to do their thing, and who is on the Wrong Side-- xo xo
I agree with you, but I guess you're not seeing the point that I am trying to make. Your standard of high quality for any of these viral isolation papers do not address the root problem of viral isolation itself.
Nucleic acid (RNA or DNA) coated by a protein shell (capsid), viruses are very real.
They’re not alive in the ordinary sense of being motile, respiring, reproducing outside of cells, or metabolizing fuels.
They assemble and replicate only inside cells because they require host cell machinery and energy to do so.
Different viruses replicate in different cell types from different species.
SARS-CoV-2 can grow (replicate) in a variety of mammalian cells, not just monkey kidney cells.
Labs use standard cell lines because they are available, economical, and proven to work for particular viruses.
If anyone can demonstrate from scientific evidence that it’s more likely viruses don’t exist than that they do, Steve Kirsch says he’ll pay them $1M.
Why has no one stepped up to this challenge and claimed the money?
https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/how-to-tell-who-is-telling-you-the
https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/1m-bet-rules
So why haven't there been any control studies where those same cell cultures using monkey kidney cells are used without the same sample from a sick individual to show that what is bring isolated is definitely the virus?
No one has accepted the challenge because it's a non-starter. It makes no sense.
Steve: "I'll give you a million dollars if you can prove that viruses don't exist."
Me: "But the entire point of this conversation is to address the viral isolation process itself which is being used to claim that viruses exist."
Steve: "But we have over 100 years of data that show that viruses exist. How can that be possible?"
Me: "Because the viral isolation process has been flawed since the very beginning."
And it goes on and on and on. The viral challenge that Dr. Baileys, Kaufman, and Cowan have proposed is a much more productive challenge for proving the existence of viruses.
The entire point that these other doctors are trying to make is that the viral isolation process itself is not scientifically sound. The process using monkey kidney cells, antibiotics, yeast, and all sorts of additives to isolate a virus is what is in question. If the process is airtight, then controlled studies would prove it. Why haven't these been done? That's all it would take.
Speaking of Steve Kirsch, why do you think he decided on speaking to Patrick Gunnels about the virus issue instead of someone else like Dr. Merritt? As far as I know. Dr. Merritt is the first and/or only one on substack that has been demonetized. Based on the last almost three years, don't you think that this might be someone worth having a conversation with?
"If the process is airtight"
Here's where you demonstrate your lack of understanding of science. In science, when it comes to miniscule things like viruses, atoms, neutrons, protons, and electrons, nothing is ever airtight. It takes very clever artificial techniques to study these things.
And how exactly does one "prove" a negative? It's like asking someone to prove God doesn't exist, or to prove unicorns don't exist. It's ridickerous. ^_^
Instead of wasting time with your unsubstantiated assertions, how about citing some actual science rather than Kirsch's publicity-stunt "challenges" - which are not a replacement for science.
Here's a virus challenge that actual involves science:
The “Settling The Virus Debate” Statement
https://drsambailey.com/resources/settling-the-virus-debate/
The real reason I now refuse to debate Steve Kirsch (hint: it’s not what Steve tells his readers)
https://www.fluoridefreepeel.ca/why-i-now-refuse-to-debate-steve-kirsch-or-richard-fleming-or-kevin-mccairn/
I've already written on Bailey's blog more than once that their claims based on false assumptions of the germ theory that viruses don't exist are not good enough. Anybody who is an MD must have witnessed the pathogen transferred between people in closed surroundings. If they deny it, their license to practice medicine should be revoked...
You ARE aware that Steve Kirsch is a tech guy, not a scientist?
Try to step outside the medical box for a minute and just think about the procedure... It's BIZARRE to put all that stuff in there and then say you've "isolated" anything! Just sayin. Not to mention all the Covid stuff is in silico... Yes? Plus, there's no EVIDENCE of isolation, just unsubstantiated CLAIMS of isolation... ask Diane Massey, she's on this thread.
And Steve Kirsch isn't the ultimate truth-teller, either... In fact, when people who can prove him wrong challenge him, he ignores them. He's controlled opposition. Are you?
You're either obstinately or deliberately wrong, or you've been duped.
If viruses are not alive, as you claim, what makes them animate? By what mechanism do dead viruses infect the host cells, hijack its machinery, replicate and then spread? If you can prove it, I will not only give you $ 1M. I will split the Nobel Prize with you...
Live viruses are not alive is the senses I mentioned — motile, respiring, reproducing outside of cells, or metabolizing fuels — but are “live” in the sense of being infective and functional, e.g., in distinguishing between “live” and “killed” virus vaccines.
Contact me at hillmd @substack.com if you’re serious about that reward.
I can explain how those phenomena work.
https://rumble.com/v1ga1e5-dr.-merritt-interview-with-poornima-wagh-phd-virology.html
Zhu used human airway cells to isolate SARS-COV-2.
Cancer rdden human airway cells.
Nope.
Wondering what sort of MD you are.... I'm guessing NOT a virologist. :)
No hundreds of papers do not explain that masks work - only a few do and they have been debunked by the over 150 well-document studies over many years that show they do not work
And if you go a little further along the Road of Actual Science, you may enter the terrain of Terrain Theory (out of the Germ Theory underbrush, let's go!)...
MIND BENDER: Contagion has NEVER BEEN PROVEN.
These people won't look at this I bet, because it is 2 1/2 hours long...BUT it makes too much sense. https://odysee.com/@spacebusters:c9/Final-The-End-of-Germ-Theory:8
It's an EXCELLENT video. Seen it! ^_^
The only stuff in those jabs are HEAVY METALS, with all due respect. There is no "virus."
Consider that heavy metals are highly toxic to the body, AND that they can be "activated" by EMF's.
You might want to watch this, too. Very interesting stuff.
https://rumble.com/v1ga1e5-dr.-merritt-interview-with-poornima-wagh-phd-virology.html
Thank you for this, Meryl. While I know a few reasonable people in this camp, the majority are religious fundamentalists bent on attacking the most effective voices in the medical freedom movement, which led me to suspect the original idea was planted to divide our community and cause normies to conflate those with questions about vaxx safety/efficacy with those they perceive as flat-earthers who question not only the existence of SARS-CoV2 but also viruses, germs, contagion, and even the immune system and autoimmune disorders. When OffGuardian publishes my articles, they often come out in droves to attack me, as do several virulent trolls on Substack, even though I have never once written about their beliefs. The mere acknowledgment that people get a unique collection of symptoms that respond successfully to early treatment protocols is enough to put me in their cross-hairs.
Meryl, Please understand the following: You (among many others) and Dr Tom Cowan (among many others) are both being hoodwinked by the forces that want to keep us divided. Whether viruses exist or not is irrelevant! HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE: it doesn't matter whether the bio weapon that came out of Wuhan was a gain of function bat virus or was created from a computer program. Injecting poison into the hypnotized masses for profit regardless of the damage done -- in other words, evil -- would be happening exactly the same in either case. That is what we're dealing with! While we squabble about this non-issue, powerful forces are intent on destroying life itself. If we don't watch it, our children and grandchildren will be transhuman. We need all hands on deck.
If viruses don't exist, then covid isn't a bioweapon and the Chinese are off the hook.
Exactly. Fauci off the hook, Baric, Bat Lady
Fauci, off the hook???? Virus or no virus, that guy is anything but off the hook. Have you read the book about him, RFK, Jr.'s "The Real Anthony Fauci"? I've never in my life seen such amazing documentation... Fauci is a murderer, straight up.
The question is, have you read the book by rfk Junior? Had you read it you would’ve seen my name in multiple places.
It is the most important book of the pandemic in my humble opinion
Yes, but think of all the names in that book!!!
I very much liked one of the videos you made, as I said. Please forgive me for being ornery.
💯👍🏻🔥❤️🔥💕
He is guilty of crimes against humanity many times over!!!
Just take a look at what he did to the gay population!!! His career is death, coercion and mayhem!!!
He is an [arch demon/psychopath/narcissist/sociopath/spiritual failure] and [he and his ilk] are being awaited on the other side. It will not be a warm welcome for [him], but it might be quite hot, like the hell fires. Just kidding, but there will be a place where [he] will be the victim of all the evil [he] has ever done, b4 [he] is made inert. Never, ever to exist ever again.
Take it or leave it. I am sure those beagle puppies are happy with this coming to pass.
He's definitely a psycho creep. Shiver me timbers.
Oh yes, [poisons] exist along with [5G].
Poomina Wagh and her team have been analyzing the [stabs] and have found them all to contain [poisons] in the form of [hydrogel, Lipid Nano Particles and Heavy Metals]. All of this together spells deadly. The [poisons] have been pushed. [Gain of function research] was done.
However, there are other ways [they] are poisoning us also. Do not think [they] are not trying to destroy beings via resonance also, b/c [they] are and have been since time immoral.
Waug is one of MANY analyzing the jabs, stabs, etc. So it's a CROWD of highly respectable labs doing that.
Yes, sorry if I was not clear. I stated it was her team. Perhaps this was not as accurate as what you iterated. Thank you.
No worries! xo
The Chinese were never ON the hook. That was some fancy dancy pointing and lying. But it's interesting to note that Wuhan, besides being incredibly laden with air pollution, they also put up something like 30,000 5G towers right before the "pandemic" started... Bad combination. And very interesting too, is the fact that the symptoms of "covid" are the same as the symptoms of radiation poisoning.
"symptoms of "covid" are the same as the symptoms of radiation poisoning."
Lol, I'm trained in physics and know this is bullshit.
Trained in physics? So what?
First off, I didn't say ALL symptoms of EMF sensitivity are the same, my statement was probably overly broad. So let me be more specific:
Here are some common symptoms of EMF toxicity:
FLU-LIKE SYMPTOMS (ding, ding!)
CHEST PAIN
DIFFICULTY BREATHING
FATIGUE
HEART ARRHYTHMIA
Now. If you consider that when "Covid" started in Wuhan, two things were present: Intensely heavy smog/pollution in the air (one of the worst places in China for that) AND right before "Covid" started, thousands of 5G towers had just gone up. Very similar situation in northern Italy, which suffered a huge impact shortly into the "pandemic." There are MANY reports of similar "coincidences" of air pollution and 5G present in heavy "covid" outbreaks. Are there dots in physics? Maybe connecting those dots is a different field of study.
Since this supposed virus has never been isolated, nope, never has, ask Diane Massey, who is on this thread, or any number of other experts, and since all the inoculations consist of a LOT of heavy metals, which become "activated" by EMF's, it's logical to consider the possibility that this whole "Covid" thing is not about a so-called "virus," but about something else entirely; and interesting how a massive surge in 5G towers going up all over the country, particularly in heavily-populated cities, and vast censorship of anyone who speaks out about the dangers of EMF's... Well, maybe it takes more than being "trained in physics," which isn't something you've proven anyway, and you don't mention HOW MUCH training in physics you've had nor what level of education you are endowed with, or where your education was given, or pretty much anything else. So if you're going to call "bullshit," then give some indication of how you come to that conclusion, because ANYBODY can just SAY something. I've given you some details. How bout it?
"Trained in physics? So what?"
Which shows that you're not. So you might stop being defensive and start asking questions instead. Like what physics says about 5G radiation and radiation sickness.
New Zealand, South Korea, Hawaii, Singapore, and Japan all are heavy into 5G, but went months without a major covid outbreak. Black Swan locator beeps. (The 5G thesis is disproven.)
(I expect that you will ignore this data like you do the rest.)
So, how much are the Chinese paying you to lie?
LOL That's cute. But I'm not lying.
How much is Bill Gates paying you?
Try to get both of your neurons to fire at the same time. You obviously have no idea about my position on anything.
Nah, don't bother. I'm bored with you guys roaming around on Substack saying ludicrously stupid things and stirring everybody up. I should have realized this is an agenda yesterday when I saw this post. SO... no. I'm out of it.
If there was an autolike button I could activate for certain commentors, I would activate such for you Tom.
if viruses do exist then you will be forced to take vaccine bioweapons
lol
Lol, but not really laughing!!!
Look up the origin of the word “virus”: poison. https://www.etymonline.com/word/virus.
Somehow this "poison" produces RNA in cells.
Proof, please.
Check the OP.
Overhead Projector?
Occupational Paradigm?
Occluded Pupils?
Octagonal Parasite?
Obvious Paleontologist?
Original Post.
Meryl, why do monkey kidney cells need to be used to isolate a virus?
"Inoculation of Vero/hSLAM cells with material from the nasopharyngeal swab led to the isolation of SARS‐CoV‐2 virus in culture."
Can you please explain what makes Dr. Andrew Kaufman ignorant? I would love to see you have an actual conversation with him, Dr. Cowan, and/or Dr. Bailey.
I did. It went poorly. They were extremely rude, K and C, and I won't do it again. They are masters of straw man arguments
That sucks.
Was this conversation an email exchange?
Hmmm. So, just give up because two guys were rude to you?
These two fellows are FAR from alone in what they are saying.
I would say listen to someone ELSE talk about Terrain Theory... I think you'd like it.
Question: Do you know that Meryl Nass has been informing the public for decades and is widely respected?
I don't know how they were rude but she does not need to continue that conversation. We on the other side do need to continue the conversation, and we should be more considerate.
That's why I apologized to her.
Rude? I can't imagine. How so?
That's unfortunate. I was not aware that you tried to have a dialogue with them. Was this recorded by chance? I would love to see it.
She has just lost credibility for me - sad.
Don't be sad.
Re-examine your beliefs.
It's good to question oneself from time to time.
I guess that is what makes me sad. That she isn't doing just that.
Maybe there's a reason she isn't. Maybe she's being blackmailed or something.
I'll tell ya what's heartening, is the number of people who now are EDUCATED about this stuff and are speaking out! This is GOOD.
You never lost credibility for me. Zero is the floor.
Come on, be civil.
Or make a smarter insult.
It was funny, though. You have potential.
Meryl is cool.
As you say, "being obnoxious ain't clever."
Mark Bailey is a microbiologist who questions the existence of viruses, He's married to Samantha Bailey, an MD. - Richard Feynman Teaches you the scientific method - It doesn't matter how smart you are, or what your name is - if the theory disagrees with experiment, it's wrong. - https://fs.blog/mental-model-scientific-method/
What Feynman didn't teach is that doing experiments can be a very difficult thing. Which is why people, all of us naturally lazy, go for the apparent "simplicity" of computers.
The experiments of Lanka are interpreted in one way by some people and ignored by other people. Everyone following her own biases. Those who seek confirmation of the non-existence of viruses have a very difficult time criticizing the results from Doctor Lanka.
Those who already know viruses exist and are dangerous have no time to be skeptical, so the have faith in the debunking of Lanka's experiments done by another believer in viruses.
Poor me, not being a scientist, I cannot understand why sometimes they say faith and consensus have nothing to do with science, and sometimes they have to submit to consensus and have confidence in the work of their peers.
I have heard people saying that Koch's postulates have been proved many times for SARS-CoV-2, and then saying that it is a very low quality level of prove, that it's not necessary, and that there are other more modern a more proper ways to prove the existence and the pathogenicity of viruses. Which is it? Then, pressured to explain why isolation is not necessary and why are the other methods preferable, they change the topic and start waxing philosophical explaining how science is not about proving anything, but about disproving wrong theories.
I am very confused. The scientists seem to be playing many different games.
Could it be that scientists are not good at communication?
And why should anyone believe anything that a scientist has to say after seeing high ranking academics with two dehumanizing masks on, pretending there was an emergency to this very day, while chastising heroes like Paul Marik. The weird behavior of the people at the top of science is a clear indication that it is very sensible to be extremely skeptical about all "known" facts.
But being skeptical is not proof for anything. Being skeptical means that blood is flowing through your brain.
And I'm sure that Feynman would be a major maskhole and a proponent of prisoner camps for refuseniks if he was alive. Politics take over the brain of the best people and those who pretend to be non-political are often progressives with strong dictatorial impulses, in my experience.
In conclusion: don't have faith in humans.
Science is the art of study and questions. For something to be accepted as valid, it has to be questioned over and over and over, and it's NEVER "settled," if there's anyone who hasn't seen it for themselves, repeatedly doing the same result.
Science has in the past few decades, been overrun by financial interests. If you go against what the Money Guys want, they won't fund your research. This is why we are in the place we're in now. Anyone who says "viruses are a scam" will be de-funded. Boom.
Real science is hard. Real philosophy is harder.
Vee - She just did explain why he is ignorant on this specific subject. But I guess you weren't paying attention.
Because Dr. Kaufman is a psychiatrist? Do you not see the irony in this? This entire fraud of a pandemic was only possible because of this idea that we should appeal to authority.
If there is anything that we have learned, it is to stop appealing to authority and to do your own research.
EXACTLY! Do your own research. Have you had herpes? Did it go away then come back when stressed? Did you get it or give it to someone else? It lives in your nerve cells. The fluid in the little blisters is filled with virus. You can sometimes see it with a Tzanck prep under a regular microscope.. Do your own research. Use yourself.
Fortunately, I have not had herpes, but I understand your point.
To be clear, I do not have a horse in this race. I am open minded to the idea that it is very possible that our understanding of viruses is incorrect, especially considering the fact that viral isolation is a real problem that needs to be addressed.
Oh kissing disease, herpes! 23 August 2022: Ancient tooth DNA reveals how ‘cold sore’ herpes virus has evolved / https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02246-1
Good article.
I think Dr. Nass is being polite.
It gets worse from there: she's a yankee.
I would love to see a chat between Meryl and Andy. I'll pay!
Nass is being divisive and insulting to those she should regard as colleagues. There are no wicked people in the Terrain group but I see a lot of anger and hostility here. The Terran group are simply questioning science orthodoxy - Insulting Dr. Kaufman is personality trait of weakness - Richard Feynman Teaches the scientific method - It doesn't matter how smart you are, or what your name is - if the theory disagrees with experimentation, it's wrong. ie: In Kaufman's view; If the virus cannot be proven to be isolated according to the rigors of Koch's Postulates then the existence of the virus is questionable - https://fs.blog/mental-model-scientific-method/
I'm no yankee and I know plenty of southern fucktards.
Yeah, we Southerners reproduce like rabbits.
An ethnic cleansing is necessary.
Once again, William the Conqueror is proven right.
https://odysee.com/@musicality:e/lynyrd-skynyrd---sweet-home-alabama---lyrics:f
Honestly, I would like to see it too - it would be a good debate.
Oh I was paying attention, and I would say it is Meryl who is being ignorant, unfortunately.
I didn't ask a question
That wasn't me - that was the person who commented before me - I never asked a question, so maybe it is you with a short memory or perhaps you are just ignorant.
Thanks for the clearly presented argument, Meryl. I, too, suspect these “non est” characters are some form of limited hangout, corralling skeptics into a dead end theory. The crazier theories get promoted to capture these people, and discredit legitimate theories through guilt by association. It’s another facet of the information firehose and the sense-making crisis we all battle with.
Meryl, I agree with you. As I worked through my own questions early on--and my own cognitive dissonance as I sorted out who and what to believe--I listed esp. to Kaufman. While I didn't know enough to discard the no virus ideas right away, it never felt quite right to me. The questions asked by the "no virus" crowd in the beginning were well meant. They got stuck, however, and did not move forward as more data became available. They ironically became cherry pickers and then science deniers, looking askance at new discoveries.
Still, it was important then that they did challenge the mainstream "wisdom." The unholy alignment of the specious modeling of Neil Ferguson, the clear faults of the PCR test and high levels of false results, tainted all the data gathered. It grossly overstated infection and death rates, and the resulting fear allowed the notion of test and trace, lockdowns and quarantine, masking etc. to take hold. Those of us digging for truth were trying to figure out whether the public health response had any value--and trying to articulate why the public health measures felt so off base. Some got stuck at the level of thinking the virus wasn't real.
When it came to treatment, the 'no virus' meme surely made some people hesitate to admit they might be sick, and to delay seeking medical care (if they could even find true early treatment). Belief in the "no virus" meme probably led to lost lives.
What strikes me most strongly here is how closely the negative effects of the spike protein from the virus track with the multiplied spike dangers from the shots. In those with COVID, the early effects are in the respiratory system, which can make it look different from the shots, which circulate throughout the body and produce billions of spike proteins, and target reproductive organs and other areas which the respiratory virus rarely reaches. There are clear similarities in the mechanism of injury (MOI) of spike, whether from the virus or the shots: blood clots.
While death rates are up 40% world wide after the big push for vaccination began, does it make sense to dither about whether viruses exist? The real problem is the shots which were justified by creating the illusion of a highly deadly pandemic. The death and damage resulting from these experimental vaccines are where our attention ought to be.
Thank you Dr Nass. The issue I have is that whether we 'little' people believe virus or not is irrelevant.
Oligarchs, and their stooges and compradors(aka politicians) go on anyway pushing reset, what ends up happening is the 'opposition' looks foolish hung up on semantics instead of practice to undo the issues reset will bring and has already brought via lockdown policies.
Watch this if you want:
https://odysee.com/@DrAndrewKaufman:f/The-Rooster-in-the-River-of-Rats-EDIT:4
Once again Meryl pretends that the onus is on someone other than the people who insist that a virus exists. Wrong! Nothing is required of us, and we've already pointed out over and over and over again the blatantly anti-scientific nature of the methods used in "virus isolation" publications.
We've also pointed out that contagion of a disease has never been scientifically demonstrated (and all past attempts to do so have failed). Nevertheless Meryl demands that we explain the cause of an allegedly contagious disease, without demonstrating the alleged contagion lol... or the alleged "incubation period" (incubation of what exactly??)
Meryl demands an explanation of symptoms, then immediately makes all sorts of unproven claims that she expects to be incorporated into any offered explanation of symptoms.
When will Meryl catch onto the fact that "CORONAVIRUS DISEASE - 19" is just a meaningless label based on useless, fraudulent tests that only distract from real health problems and real causes, and that no further explanation is remotely required?? There is no unique "covid-19" disease, there is just a relabeling of other conditions and perfectly healthy people. This isn't rocket science.
And I'm sorry but pretending that labelling a drug "antiviral" is somehow evidence of a virus... really?
Pretending that it's necessary to isolate and grow something in order to make up meaningless in silico "virus genomes" on computers?? Just read the damn Methods, Meryl! They extract all the RNA from a clinical sample or a cell culture, detect and/or make up zillions of sequences (using PCR with too many cycles), and have a computer patch them together into a "genome" that has nothing to do with reality. It's the result of illogic/needing a paycheck/corruption... all sorts of factors... the same way all sorts of other harmful and dumb things go largely unchallenged in this world.
But hey, thank you Meryl for citing the Australia "isolation" study and thereby making your latest attempt to defend virology so very easy to debunk.
"Following several failures to recover virions with the characteristic fringe of surface spike proteins, it was found that adding trypsin to the cell culture medium immediately improved virion morphology." LOL.
This study was dissected long ago, it's the typical monkey cell nonsense and shame on you for pretending this is science. I have a webpage devoted to this ridiculous study, with commentary also from Dr. Tom Cowan and Canada's Saeed Qureshi, former Senior Scientist with 35 years experience at Health Canada:
https://www.fluoridefreepeel.ca/australian-dept-of-health-has-no-record-of-covid-19-virus-isolation/
The Victorian Infectious Diseases Reference Laboratory performed the usual “monkey business” of mixing a patient's clinical sample with kidney cells from an African green monkey and fetal bovine serum (both are sources of genetic contamination), and antibiotics, etc, malnourishing and poisoning the cells, irrationally blaming “the virus” for cell breakdown. No "virus" was found in the clinical sample, as always. No scientific method was applied. No alleged virus was used as the independent variable in a controlled experiment. Just wild, idiotic, irresponsible, anti-scientific assumptions.
The Doherty Institute, home of VIDRL where “the virus” was alleged to have been isolated, admitted in response to an FOI request that they have no record of the fake “SARS-COV-2” being found in any diseased human on the planet and isolated/purified (as have literally hundreds of institutions around the world):
https://www.fluoridefreepeel.ca/australias-doherty-institute-claimed-to-have-isolated-the-covid-19-virus-aka-sars-cov-2-later-said-they-have-no-record-of-such/
I challenged Meryl just a couple of weeks ago to cite science that demonstrates the existence of "monkeypox virus" or SARS-COV-2. Here is our email exchange:
https://www.fluoridefreepeel.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Meryl-Nass-Aug-2022-PACKAGE-redacted.pdf
All you've proven is that the confidence that there is a SARS-COV-2 is only 99.9%. You've made no significant contribution.
If you want to make a significant contribution, figure out a way to test your theory, then do it.
p.s. I don't have or need a theory. It's the virus-pushers who have a still-untested hypothesis that is finally catching up with them.
ps. you should stay out of science and stick to knitting--science is for adults
I'm 54 years old and have a maters degree in biostatistics from the Dalla Lana School of Public Health, University of Toronto and am co-author on numerous cancer publications. And anyone can see through the antiscientific nature of virology, so I'll stay in this discussion but thanks for your misguided advice.
My master's thesis in physics had to do with experimental research in the medium infrared. Photons. Stuff you can't weigh in a scale because of the low mass. You can't isolate nor purify photons and sell them in a bin at Natural Grocers. The medium infrared is EMF radiation that can't be seen and can only be detected by _artificial_ means. I prepared experimental pellets in a press and ran spectral analyses on them in a lab using a Perkins-Elmer reflectometer. I came up with my own thesis topic and tested it. My advisor did a lot of the work designing the experiment by setting up the acoustic link to the university computer and the jcl to run the fast fourier transform program with experimental data as the input. It was in my thesis defense that I realized how many things I had overlooked. "I don't know, but will look into it and get back to you." x 3
I didn't work with a biostatistician, which is common in physics. We usually do our own statistics.
So you are a biostatistician. Tell me about your work designing experiments and conducting them in a lab.
Distract much from your lack of science demonstrating "viruses"? I don't have all day to respond to endless inane comments from you Tom, sorry. I have no idea if particles called photons have actually been shown to exist and I'd no longer be surprised if they haven't. And if they do exist but also behave as waves depending on whether or not someone is looking at them, that is quite a different phenomenon from "viruses" which are said to be solid particles. Share some "virus" science if you can.
This isn't a question of confidence. There is zero science. Show that I'm wrong, with science you can.
I've made a huge contribution - literally hundreds of FOI responses from >35 countries - none can cite or provide any record of the fake virus being found in any bodily fluid/tissue anywhere on the planet:
https://www.fluoridefreepeel.ca/fois-reveal-that-health-science-institutions-around-the-world-have-no-record-of-sars-cov-2-isolation-purification/
And Meryl knows this perfectly well, as shown in our email exchange where she praised me on the FOI project... but then dismissed them b/c they don't fit her narrative: https://www.fluoridefreepeel.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Meryl-Nass-Aug-2022-PACKAGE-redacted.pdf
"Tom Hogan" writes like a bot. I would just ignore "him."
"There is zero science."
Absurd. The most that you might claim is that the evidence is not as strong as it should be.
" Show that I'm wrong, with science you can."
Been there, done that, you had a crank response. This is why no one takes you seriously.
"I've made a huge contribution - literally hundreds of FOI responses from >35 countries - none can cite or provide any record of the fake virus being found in any bodily fluid/tissue anywhere on the planet"
It's true that no one has followed your absurd test conditions.
Just to give you an idea of what you might accomplish for science--Joseph Priestley provided evidence for the oxidation theory of chemistry, despite being a proponent of the theory of phlogiston, which he maintained throughout his life. Without Priestley's contributions, including the discovery of "anti-phlogiston" (oxygen), science would have been much poorer.
This is how science is done if you want to make a contribution. You help test theories. Like Priestley did.
I don't see any links to studies or citations in your comment Tom, so....
Thank you Meryl! There should not be a single cogent human on earth asserting that the spike protein was part of any naturally occurring pathogen. It is absolutely the Swiss Army knife of bioweapon payloads. The Achilles heel of this genocidal weapon remains early treatment.
Spike protein? Hmm...
The Elephant and The Spike
https://viroliegy.com/2022/07/20/the-elephant-and-the-spike/
There can be unicorns too. Do you have science that demonstrates the existence of the "spike protein"?
So an anonymous internet commenter "knows" that my FOIs are all fabricated. Wow. Please do share the evidence upon which you base your stunning accusation.
Being "fairly sure" of something is not a replacement for science.
Did I say that I deny the existence of all proteins?
Do you have science demonstrating the existence of the alleged "spike protein" that is alleged to be part of the fake virus?
It could be a genocidal weapon, but that doesn't mean its a virus.
I have a question you or someone else may be able to answer.
In 1963, June Almeida made some pictures of coronaviruses on an electron microscope. The little spikes on the viruses of those pictures were the same atificial spike protein we believe is a disabling biological weapon?
The spike protein of a similar bat coronavirus was altered using gain of function techniques to add a Furin Cleavage Site to make humans more susceptible to the virus (ACE-2 receptor) plus there were other genomic inserts, such as an HIV-like insert or Gp-120, to make it more damaging or lethal to us.
Thanks.
So, it's not synthetic? Isn't that patent fraud?
If it is not synthetic, it's natural.
The thick plottens.
Terminology is confusing. A natural virus was modified to make it more infectious and toxic. It "escaped" the lab by an infected lab worker or was intentionally released and infected others. Once in a human, the altered virus reproduced (or produced copies of itself) and spread to other humans ad infinitum. Because RNA viruses are not stable, imperfect copies were produced, which is what the scientists call variants. I prefer calling it "altered" because to me, synthetic implies making something from scratch.
No offense, but sounds like a con to me.
Too many coincidences.
Thanks for your answers.
If you haven’t yet seen it, Sabine Hazan discusses discovering the entire SARS-CoV2 genome in stool samples in this Tess Talks episode:
• https://drtesslawrie.substack.com/p/tess-talks-with-sabine-hazan
"I have challenged those who deny Covid is caused by a real virus to explain what, exactly, is causing these symptoms if it is not a virus. "
If you are asserting there is a real virus and that it is a pathogen which is causing a specific disease, the scientific method would deem that it's up to you to prove this hypothesis, not up to everyone else to provide an alternative. That's how hypothesis testing is done.
You claim hundreds of thousands of sequences have been uploaded. How were these sequences obtained? They were in fact assembled from material found in cell cultures in which un-purified extracts from those deemed sick with "Covid" (on the basis of the inaccurate PCR test) were grown in addition to nutrients and antibiotics. The numerous possible resulting genomes assembled were then looked at and compared to a supposed known SARS genome, itself the product of computer software assembly, because it was pre-supposed that something like it was in the mix. This is not at all a scientific procedure.
There is no "scientific method." There are many methods, all very different.
Unclear. On the concept. Nothing left to do but 😂 😂 😂
"When a wise man and a fool debate, the fool mocks and there is no ending."
If you think there is no such thing as a "scientific method," developed over centuries, you are obviously someone with little if any exposure to science, it's a waste of time discussing anything with you. The method puts the burden of proof upon someone making a claim to prove it, not upon everyone else to disprove it. Those who claim an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus exists, has been isolated,... need to prove it, not up to the rest of us to come up with alternative hypotheses as to why "people are getting sick." A defendant in a trial does not have to come up with an actual perpetrator of the alleged crime in order to be found not guilty. Someone cannot claim the moon is made of blue cheese and demand the rest of us disprove this claim.
I get asked this, also. People argue that viruses are not real. Indeed, it is seldom possible to demonstrate one item of such a small thing, because it is destroyed by any process of singling it out, and is too small to see by light microscopy, and is destroyed by electron-microscopy. What is left is it's
Hiroshima-shadow, like that cast by those vaporized by the bomb.
Still, viruses respond to treatment like infectious agents, like strep-throat, when there are effective antivirals, which there are for COVID, as well as for flu. What I discovered in the 1990s is that if you treat flu on the first day of symptoms (cheap generic amantadine in those days) it's like magic. On the second day it helps. After 48 hours, antivirals against influenza don't seem to help.
COVID has a longer viral incubation time, so pre-symptomatic treatments do well.
Antiviral treatments, like ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine and zinc help better when given earlier.
Ivermectin is a special case, because it has anti-inflammatory characteristics that help in the second week of COVID. We don't see second-week-crisis much now, like we did with Delta and the previous strains, that attacked the blood vessel linings so badly, and caused crisis wherever there were arterioles (yeah, every organ).
"Ivermectin is a special case, because it has anti-inflammatory characteristics that help in the second week of COVID."
Ditto calcifediol. And it is even better tolerated than IVM. And calcifediol also works well in the first week. But in order to avoid paying thru the nose for Rayaldee, you have to order calcifediol online in advance.
Vitamin-D normalization should be a baseline, and if not already supplemented must be addressed immediately as part of treatment with antivirals, since the immune system is crippled without it. I gave away over 40,000 doses of 5000 IU vitamin-D in 2020.
High dose vitamin D3 works well within 3 days to normalize vitamin-D levels.
Doses of 300,000 - 500,000 IUs are appropriate. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4128480/
Calcifediol, notable summer 2020 from a Spanish hospital study, is not readily available in the US.
D3 won't work in the case of severe liver dysfunction, nor when consuming alcohol, with uptake inhibited by all manner of intestinal conditions. Calcifediol bypasses lots of these sorts of obstacles, although there are some rare genetic conditions which prevent calcifediol from being effective.
Do you have a ref to a pharmacokinetic curve of 25OHD for a megadose of D3 in D3-competent individuals?
Calcifediol supplementation has an almost immediate effect on serum 25OHD.
No pharmakokinetics curve, but several of the studies did include some points. 300,000 IU orally, once gives normal levels in most people from 3 days, out to 21-30 days.
...not in formularies, but it can be ordered online by individuals
I remember my Boy Scout motto: "Be prepared."
Dr. Nass, perhaps you should talk with Poornima Wagh PhD virology and PhD immunology. The lab she worked in was given a $1.5 million grant from NIH to isolate the SARS COV2 virus. After doing the analysis using the gold standard of isolation, purification and proving causation using Koch’s Postulates they could not find any virus. They did the analysis 3 times and had 6 Universities (5 in CA, 1 on the east coast) duplicating Wagh’s process (she had a control group too) they also could not find any virus. She had a 30 min. meeting with CDC and a small group to share the findings. They then had a 2.5 zoom meeting with Robert Redfield and slew of people. She was told by ROBERT REDFIELD that he did not care what they found they would write up their report stating the virus was isolated. Poornima refused to lie. She was told her lab would then be shut down and they would not be able to publish their results. Her lab was raided and shut down by the FBI and the FBI actually came to her house. She said if you read the methodology used by published papers they use a soup and do not use gold standard processes with a pure sample. You should talk with her. She just did 2 extremely good interviews with Dr. Lee Merritt. She is going to do a conference on Sunday with a group out of Asia and Dr. Reiner Fuellmich. She will be talking about the process used by those that are published and the proper procedure that should be used. She also has a team of 18 people around the world that have analyzed the ingredients in the vaccines. Her findings are quite shocking. She just did an interview on their findings.
Now about this virus being contagious. There is no explanation as to how I got COVID. I was in my home from July to December 2020. I went out in the public 1 day in October to vote. I went on a 1 hour walk each day to get exercise and sun(saw no one....my neighborhood was a ghost town). During this time (except for the one day in October when I went to vote) I was not near another living person. I went into no stores, no one came in my home, I went into no one’s home. In November of 2020 I got severe COVID. I was treated with HCQ & Ivermectin, D3, Vit. C, Zinc, Prednisone, NAC, Z-Pack. I was in bed for 3 weeks but survived. It was always a mystery to me as to how I got COVID. I personally believe that the body goes through a natural cycle of shedding toxins from the body and I also believe this cycle takes place during the winter months. I believe there is no such thing as flu or virus. It is a fabricated science in order to sell pills and injections. Why is it so hard to believe this after all we now know about how we have been lied to for decades. Vaccines are not safe and they are not effective. None of them. If they were good then the US would have the lowest infant mortality rate and the healthiest population in the world because we vaccinate more than any other country. Our infant mortality rate is very high and we are the sickest country in all industrialized nations. When Japan stopped using MMR in the 1990’s their SIDS rate plummeted and they have one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the world. It doesn’t take a PhD to figure out the correlation between vaccines and poor health.
So we all need to keep an open mind and realize it is possible what we have been told for many decades is not true. Remember at one time people were crucified for practicing hand washing before delivering a baby or doing a surgery. And again COVID being contagious......You surely cannot prove that by me. It is possible that other things caused so many to get sick. Polio was not caused by a virus but is environmental. When they stopped spraying DDT all over the place during the summer Polio disappeared. The vaccine did not end Polio. Most cases of Polio today are caused by the vaccine. The definition of Polio was also changed in order to make it seem like the vaccine cured it. The vaccine came out when Polio was almost non-existent.
I really think you will find Poornima Wagh worth your time.
My tear on this subject began after I listened to her. Her lab sent 200 samples thoght to contain coccioides immitus to another lab and the opther lab couldn't find it so there is no coccioides immitus. Hmmm. No valley fever. JUst toxins. Hmmm.
But it responds to antifungals. The Xray findings are characteristic. People get it in the San Joaquin Valley. Maybe you didn't find it cause it wasn't there, or the lab made a mistake, or didn't incubate the samples long enough, or use the right medium. ONe lab can't find something that other labs have found for maybe 100 years , so the fungus does not exist.
Maybe they should have consulted a coccidioides expert to find out what they were doing wrong in the isolation process? Instead of jumping to the conclusion Valley fever must be caused by methyl bromide.
Every illness is caused by some combination of terrain and exposure.
The people who throw the baby out with the bathwater bother me. I can't see the herpes under my microscope, so a) there is no herpes. b) microscopes don't work. Maybe you killed it? Failed to properly isolate it? Don't know what it looks like ? Scientists don't just set up experiments then start doing them. Most early experiments fail because the conditions under which they are run have to be just right, and this often requires trial and error.
Well it appears to me that you are doing the same thing you accuse others.....throwing the baby out with the bath water. You dismiss her findings without ever talking with her then accuse others of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Wagh has been in the business for 20 years. She is not a careless scientist. Science is about collaboration and that is an aspect that has long been forgotten. It appears many scientists today are stuck in a paradigm....it is either my way or my opinion or it doesn’t count or merit discussion. Besides the discussion was about the isolation of the SARS COV2 virus.
Wagh has failed to publish her findings anywhere--even on her own website. That isn't science.
She just gives interviews. P
She has not failed. The system has failed. DID YOU NOT READ that she was told to lie or have her lab shut down. They didn’t dispute her findings they told her to LIE. I guess the fact that so many others have had their research shut down makes them a fraud as well. IE Dr. McCullough, Dr. Kory, Dr. Merritt, Dr. Mikovits.......are they frauds too?
lol
I can remember difficulties in making optically-smooth pellets in presses during my days working in experimental optical physics. Some days, no problem, but other days, the pellets would always break. We eventually figured out that ambient humidity levels accounted for the difference.
Real science is hard. It's easy to screw up science. And the lab often doesn't correspond to the real world.
"Tom Hogan" writes like a bot. I'd not waste your time with "him."
Project much?
See 2 of my comments above. Poornima S Wagh is not Purnima K Wagh. Poornima does not gave any PhDs. She is a fraud. See the article, Charlatan's Web, by Eric Coppolino.
I am very well aware that PURNIMA WAGH is not Poornima wagh. Perhaps you need to do some research on Eric Coppolino. He is not the type of person I would ever put any faith in. There is a lot more to the story than you know. Funny how you will beieve a guy like Coppolino without doing any research on your own. The email I have from Student Records at London School of Hygience and Tropical Medicine stated they could not share any information about Poornima without written permission from Poornima. That is a far cry from “she never attended LSHTM.” Coppolino called her for a friendly get to know one another phone call and he recorded the entire call without her knowledge or permission and then released it to the internet. There was nothing in that call except for a guy asking a lot of questions and Poornima politely answering. It was a nice friendly call that he twisted and took the low life route of sharing what was supposed to be a friendly phone call. At least when Steve Kirsch records a phone call he has the decency to let the person know he is recording the call. If you intentions were honorable (which I do not believe Coppolino has an honorable bone in his body) he would have told her he was going to record. Knowing Poornima she would have no problem with that. But he is, again in my opinion, far from honorable. Here is a bit of information to start your research on him. Again, there is a lot more to this story and you shouldn’t be so fast to call someone a fraud. https://hudsonvalleyone.com/2018/08/04/metoo-comes-to-town/
One of my friends died from Valley Fever caught in S. Calif and a neighbor's son had Valley Fever, he's a fireman in S. Calif.
"In November of 2020 I got severe COVID."
You don't "get" severe covid. People initially come down with mild covid, which progresses to moderate in some, then possibly to severe.
I expect that you were severely deficient in vitamin D.
Don't you know that Dr. Nass has been fighting against dangerous vaccines for decades? What is wrong with you???
Sorry for not providing a day by day list of events during my illness. I didn’t think it necessary. I had COVID and was very sick. I know about Dr. Nass but I also know that many scientists are stuck in a paradigm. My suggestion was only that perhaps she should consult with others. She is not the God of science. She is a human being and as any human being can be wrong. We all need collaboration when it comes to science. My comments about vaccines was not to educate her but to educate those reading her posts that still think vaccines are safe and effective. COMMENTS are not just about responding to the author but to also respond to readers and share thoughts and opinions. The point was that perhaps Dr. Nass would want to speak with DR. POORNIMA WAGH who is also an experienced, educated scientist. When scientists points of view and experience do not agree that is when collaboration is important. Science is never settled. Many, many years ago doctors who thought you should wash your hands before surgery were scoffed at and of course today we know the importance of cleanliness before any surgery or delivery of a baby. We also know that many scientific, so called theories, are created in order to feed the pharmaceutical industry and research studies manipulated in order to secure grant money. This is why in todays world we must be open to all aspects of science. Dr. Wagh is not an incompetent. Her experience goes against the grain just like Dr. Mikovits in her day and may other great scientists. That doesn’t make them wrong. People criticized Dr. Zelenko, Dr. Malone, Dr. McCullough and yes Dr. Nass and this is why I am so surprised that Dr. Nass appears to be so closed minded about this issue.
You ignore my point about Wagh failing to publish. Many skeptics have published--unreviewed on websites. Better than nothing.
Wagh has failed. Miserably.
We have to be careful with the bandwagon effect.
Doctors went from the extreme of no hygiene to the extreme of too much sterilization, to the point of harming people.
The same happens with other scientific crazes.
Like vaccines. Like cancer screening. Like ADHD. Etc.
Ackshually... LOL
That's way too aggressive! ROFLMAO!
Tom, you're so funny.
Two interviews?
I only watched one. Where's the second, please?
I don't think Meryl and Poornima are a good match for debating this topic.
Poornima would have a great debate/conversation with someone like Jessica Rose, Steve Kirsch or Judy Mikovits.
Potentially, we have a 160+ IQ version of a MMA show.
Poornima Wagh is a fraud, as I stated further above. She does not have any PhDs, not even in hotel management, much less virology and immunology. She did not graduate from London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. These are verifiable facts.
Dear Mrs Osterman,
At the date of writing the comment you are responding to, I dind't know that Ms. Wagh had lied about her academic acreditation. Also, the date of the interview with Regis Tremblay titled "Poornima Wagh takes the stand to defend herself" is from September 1st, I think. In that interview she had the opportunity to show evidence and she did not.
Unless she ever shows up again, I think we all should leave this affair as finished, declare we don't know how and why this came to be, and that the reasons probably do not matter at all. I don't hold a grudge against her.